Diskussion:Clementine Helm

Much better image (Viel besseres Bild )

Clementine Helm, um 1884

@Llydi, Aka, Egidius~dewiki, Goerdte, Paulae, Unukorno, Priwo Hello all. I've pinged you lot because you are the users who appear in this article's history as contributors who are still active. I speak no German, so I apologize for the English post and machine translation below (I hope it's not too garbled). I am an administrator at the English Wikipedia and answer a lot of questions at help fora there. A new user posted a question yesterday regarding use of the image from this article and received advice about local upload, etc. In investigating the question, possibly preliminary to a transfer to the Commons, I found a much better version of the image available from here. The associated document is also available for free download from here (and might be good fodder for a source for the article's expansion). From there, it advises regarding the original source of the image as follows (PDF page 5): "Clementine Helm (aged 58). Portrait from her novel Backfischchens. Leiden und Freuden, 25th edition, 1884." I thought you might want to replace the image with that one. Also, since you're German speakers, you'd be rather better situated to view the book at some point, possibly find the credit for the image therein, and from there, be able to determine if the copyright owner died more than 70 years ago. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (Diskussion) 13:59, 5. Mär. 2021 (CET)

Hallo alle. Ich habe Sie oft angerufen, weil Sie die Benutzer sind, die in der Geschichte dieses Artikels als Mitwirkende erscheinen, die noch aktiv sind. Ich spreche kein Deutsch, deshalb entschuldige ich mich für die englische Post und die maschinelle Übersetzung unten (ich hoffe, es ist nicht zu verstümmelt). Ich bin Administrator bei der englischen Wikipedia und beantworte dort viele Fragen in Hilfeforen. Ein neuer Benutzer hat gestern eine Frage zur Verwendung des Bildes aus diesem Artikel gestellt und Ratschläge zum lokalen Upload usw. erhalten. Bei der Untersuchung der Frage, möglicherweise vor einer Übertragung an die Commons, fand ich eine viel bessere Version des Bildes verfügbar unter hier. Das zugehörige Dokument kann auch kostenlos von hier (und könnte ein gutes Futter für eine Quelle für die Erweiterung des Artikels sein). Von dort rät es bezüglich der Originalquelle des Bildes wie folgt (PDF Seite 5): "Clementine Helm (aged 58). Portrait from her novel Backfischchens. Leiden und Freuden, 25th edition, 1884." Ich dachte, Sie möchten das Bild vielleicht durch dieses ersetzen. Da Sie Deutsch sprechen, sind Sie außerdem besser in der Lage, das Buch irgendwann anzusehen, möglicherweise die Gutschrift für das darin enthaltene Bild zu finden und von dort aus festzustellen, ob der Inhaber des Urheberrechts mehr als 70 Jahre verstorben ist vor. Mit freundlichen Grüßen--Fuhghettaboutit (Diskussion) 13:59, 5. Mär. 2021 (CET)

Hi, thank you for the info. There is no photographer given, it just says "Mit dem Bildnis der Verfasserin und sechs Illustrationen von W. Zehme" (with a picture of the author and six illustrations of W. Zehme = Werner Zehme). Btw: Under the pic in Backfischchens Leiden und Freuden is a signature of Clementine Helm too.

But 1884 should be the first time, the portrait of the author was included (before that date the edition only included one illustration by Zehme), so we can assume that the picture was taken around that time too. Date of publication 1884, so way older than 100 years, and therefore ok for a local file. Let's assume the photographer was not a beginner, so let's got for 35, i.e. born in 1849. He must've gotten older than 101 for the picture to still be copyrighted. I'd say that is very, very unlikely. Imho it should be no problem to upload it on Commons. Upload it as a separate file though, the one we have is a print in a newspaper, so the details are a bit different. But imho our local file can be transferred to Commons too. --Paulae 14:41, 5. Mär. 2021 (CET)

Dear Fuhghettaboutit, dear Paulae & all fellow readers, thank you for sharing your knowledge on this. It's actually my first month here and I try to "be bold", teach myself things and not to get into too much trouble. You are both very experienced with these things and have been here for a really long time. I noticed that most contributors try hard to do things themselves. I honestly respect that, however my occupational desease (as a sworn translator) is to look for someone who knows more, especially if I can't do something without risking to compromise the quality of waht I provide. I have created a longer German version of this article, partially based on the doc from researchgate (this might interest you, Paulae, since you have also contributed to it). At this point I am not even able to transfer pictures which are in the Wikicommons from one language version to another, and wouldn't dare to upload any pictures from the outside at this point. So if anyone here is willing and able to get the picture on the page, I will be happy observe for now, and supply my extra info as soon as I managed to get the references right. Llydia (Diskussion) 17:20, 5. Mär. 2021 (CET)

I uploaded the pic, may Commons be kind. :-) --Paulae 21:44, 5. Mär. 2021 (CET)

And please, don't be shy to work on the article, there is so much info missing, and the reasearchgate article is very helpful. The Springer Link you added was actually the Wilkending literature that's already in the article, so I removed that extra reference. If you have any questions, feel free to come to my disk (we can write in German ;-)). --Paulae 21:49, 5. Mär. 2021 (CET)

Liebe Paulae, very friendly support, I really apprechiate it. The picture looks great, the definition is also better then before. I still don't know what the perfect amount of references is, so feel free to do whatever you feel is neccessary to improve my current updates. Grüße von Llydia (Diskussion) 13:33, 6. Mär. 2021 (CET)