Diskussion:Krystian Zimerman
Grauenhafte Lobhudelei auf Zimerman
BearbeitenFürchte, hier versucht ein dienstbare Geist der Deutschen Gramophon Werbung für Zimerman-Einspielungen zu machen. Bundesrowdyplik Doitsland
Ich hab z.B. ne Einspielung von Schumann-Klavierkonz mit Zimerman und Karajan die sehr enttäuschend ist. Sauber gespielt, keine Frage, aber irgendwie kraflos. Im Vergleich zu wirklich großen Klavierspielern wie z.B. sein Landsman Horszowski es war ist Z. ne kleine Nummer.
Er hat nen Preis 1975 in Warschau gwonnen? Gähn! Er hat mit Ozawa und Karajan gerabeitet? Na und! das macht fast jeder bessere Pianist.
Sollte man mal richtig PR-Entmüllen. Fürchte, dann bleibt aber nicht mehr sehr viel. Bundesrowdyplik Doitsland 13:43, 30. Mai 2005
- Was ist das denn für ein grauenhafter Kommentar? Sind wir hier bei SPON? Chth (Diskussion) 08:45, 14. Mai 2016 (CEST)
- Grundsätzlich gilt auch in der Musik und nicht nur in der Jurisprudenz: "et auditur altera pars". Es ist nicht möglich, einen Pianisten nur aufgrund der Interpretation eines Werkes abschließend bzw. gerecht beurteilen zu wollen, erst recht nicht in einem enzyklopädischen Artikel. Was an dem Artikel mehr stört, ist der holprige sprachliche Stil. Ein wenig kurios ist die Bezeichnung "Orchesterleiter" (um das Wort Dirigent zu vermeiden?). Dies ist eigentlich eine ungebräuchliche Bezeichnung. Es gibt Chorleiter, früher auch einmal "Kapellmeister" (heute eher verpönt) und in jedem Fall Konzertmeister, die in manchen Orchestern die wichtige Rolle eines "eingebetteten Dirigenten" spielen. Eine ganze Reihe von Pianisten (etwa Pletniev, Ashkenazy und nicht zuletzt Daniel Barenboim) haben Konzerte dirigiert (oft in der Funktion des Konzertmeisters), dies ist hier vermutlich gemeint. Auch über die "Kommunikation mit dem Theaterregisseur Tadeusz Kantor" hätte man gerne Genaueres erfahren (nicht uninteressant). Der Artikel wirft grundsätzlich die Frage auf, was in einem enzyklopädischen Artikel über einen Pianisten (allgemein ausübenden Musiker) neben einer biographischen Skizze alles vorkommen sollte. Stilistische Einschätzung, interpretatorische Ansätze, wichtige Einspielungen? Oder nur biographisches Material (wann was etc...) ? Dies betrifft viele Artikel in der wikipedia über Musiker. 217.249.214.43 20:18, 6. Okt. 2005
Künstler-Foto
BearbeitenHabe das Foto ersetzt durch ein Foto, dass weniger diffamierend ist. Würde mich freuen wenn die Community das sichtet und dann frei gibt. Danke. Moritz85 (nicht signierter Beitrag von 213.193.119.56 (Diskussion) 10:07, 13. Aug. 2014 (CEST))
- Zum Stand: Das damals eingefügte Bild existiert nicht mehr, das vorige Bild ist wieder drin. --Lektor w (Diskussion) 08:19, 5. Feb. 2018 (CET)
polnisch-schweizerischer Pianist
Bearbeiten@RoBri: I see that you added a source to Zimerman's naturalization, this still does not make him a Swiss artist. Calling him a Polish-Swiss artist suggest he has some Swiss origins, or lived and worked in Switzerland for most of his life. In my opinion, this is appropriation Tremendo (Diskussion) 19:58, 24. Feb. 2024 (CET)
- Hallo. Er ist gemäß Beleg in der Schweiz heimatberechtigt und damit Schweizer Staatsangehöriger. Staatsangehörigkeit gehört ins Intro. Nebenbei ist eher fraglich, ob er überhaupt (noch) Pole ist. --Roger (Diskussion) 20:28, 24. Feb. 2024 (CET)
- He's living in Switzerland since 1981 (!). That's 43 years, so he has actually lived for the larger part of his life in Switzerland, and he is, as Roger points out, a naturalized Swiss citizen. There's nothing wrong with calling him Polish-Swiss, therefore, quite the contrary, it's only appropriate. An alternative would be to call him "a Swiss artist of Polish origin" or "a Polish-born Swiss artist". Gestumblindi 17:43, 25. Feb. 2024 (CET)
- While he has been living in Switzerland since 1981 and obtained Swiss nationality, his cultural and artistic roots remain in Poland, his wife and children are Polish (maybe also have Swiss citizenship now). It's common for artists to reside in different countries and even acquire new nationalities, but their identity often reflects their cultural background and artistic heritage. I would argue this is the case for Zimerman, while it may be different for other artists. I agree the second nationality belongs to the intro section, however I believe "Polish artist" who "obtained Swiss nationality in 1984/was naturalized Swiss" would give the most accurate description. Saying "a Swiss artist of Polish origin" or "a Polish-born Swiss artist" would be a large liberty to take, there is no automatic switch of who you are with numbers of years lived in another country. Also I never heard him say in interviews he considers himself a Polish-Swiss artist, if you had a source like that, I would be happy to keep as is. Tremendo (Diskussion) 20:25, 7. Mär. 2024 (CET)
- @Tremendo: I don't believe it's anyone's intention here to try to take away Krystian Zimerman's cultural and artistic Polish roots in any way - certainly not my intention; I actually have huge respect for Polish culture and am deeply interested in Polish-Swiss cultural and historical relations, e.g. I'm the main author of the article Tadeusz Kościuszko here (and I certainly wouldn't call Kościuszko "Polish-Swiss", as he only lived for the last two years of his life here, of course). Just to, hopefully, clear out the "appropriation" allegation. But on the other hand, it's also true that Zimerman isn't just living an isolated life as a Polish artist who happens to be in Switzerland, as he's an integral part of the cultural landscape of the country of his chosen citizenship, and even shows his connection with local culture e.g. when he played in a charity concert for a library near the place where he lives. So - couldn't we say that "polnisch-schweizerisch" (Polish-Swiss) is actually a good description, given that Switzerland has been the centre of his life for so long and he's actually become Swiss? I think I can agree with you that we don't need to go as far as calling him "a Swiss artist of Polish origin", but "Polish-Swiss" seems quite neutral and fitting to me. - By the way, though I don't have a problem discussing this in English, others here might object or have difficulties with it, as this is the German-language Wikipedia, so I'd suggest, if you want to discuss this further in English, that we do so on your or on my talk page. Gestumblindi 21:19, 7. Mär. 2024 (CET)
- While he has been living in Switzerland since 1981 and obtained Swiss nationality, his cultural and artistic roots remain in Poland, his wife and children are Polish (maybe also have Swiss citizenship now). It's common for artists to reside in different countries and even acquire new nationalities, but their identity often reflects their cultural background and artistic heritage. I would argue this is the case for Zimerman, while it may be different for other artists. I agree the second nationality belongs to the intro section, however I believe "Polish artist" who "obtained Swiss nationality in 1984/was naturalized Swiss" would give the most accurate description. Saying "a Swiss artist of Polish origin" or "a Polish-born Swiss artist" would be a large liberty to take, there is no automatic switch of who you are with numbers of years lived in another country. Also I never heard him say in interviews he considers himself a Polish-Swiss artist, if you had a source like that, I would be happy to keep as is. Tremendo (Diskussion) 20:25, 7. Mär. 2024 (CET)