Diskussion:Lesginka
Letzter Kommentar: vor 3 Monaten von WajWohu in Abschnitt Armenian "Artsvapar": existent or non-existent?
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Armenian "Artsvapar": existent or non-existent?
BearbeitenÜbertrag von eigener Diskussionsseite hierher, wo es transparent ist und auch andere sich äußern können.--WajWohu (Diskussion) 15:08, 15. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
Please put sources of the artsvapar dance, no study no book talks about that --Caucaseveritable (Diskussion) 16:26, 13. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
- Hello @Caucaseveritable: What exactly do you want to explain here and with your statement above? I really do not understand your subject... That there is no Armenian dance called "artsvapar" (արծվապար) existing? Is it that you want to explain me?
- I answered here there are very many proofs e.g. here for the exsistence of "artsvapar" as one of the Armenian folk dances. You repelled, I have to refer only academic studies and showed me that youtube-Interview of a expert of Armenian folk dances and dancing-teacher (not even a academic study), who said, he visited all regions of Armenia, Artsakh, Armenian villages, settlements and communities in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Southern Russia, Boston and Los Angeles and never saw a lezginka- or artsvapar-dance. But this is only one opinion and impression. The article doesn't say, it is a very often or usual tradition amongst Armenians, and I think this dance may be a cultural adaption from Northern Caucasus (as I remember). But there are even to many examples and counterproofs against a nonexistence of artsvapar- and lezginka-dance amongst Armenians. Sincerely--WajWohu (Diskussion) 22:15, 13. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
- Hello, once again there is no source, the Wikipedia page of Armenian dances did not source this dance because it does not exist, it was born from a YouTube channel that invented this legend by making an Armenian translation of the Russian word "Lezginka" there are about fifty books that Armenian dances, from the Caucasus, this dance is non-existent. On YouTube this name has been put on all movie dances that have nothing to do with this name. If you can't find a written source then don't put it. The lezginka does not exist in Armenia and there is no point in changing that. (gagik ginosyan is an Armenian dance historian and artsakh fighter, his point of view is proof unlike YouTube videos released by the same creator) --Caucaseveritable (Diskussion) 15:12, 14. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
- Sure: Narine Shamamyan: The Dances in the 20th Century Armenian Movies and Documentaries. "Artsvapar" mentioned p. 464 lower lines in English as an existing dance in those films. Unfortunately I cannot understand the whole Armenian text without translation, what she writes about Artsvapar and its origins, but it exists here. Possibly you can translate it?
- This is a dance from the Soviet-Armenian film "Zangezur" (1937) (or from "Pepo" 1935?) called "Artsvapar", long time before the invention of youtube. The dance and rhythm is a typical Lezginka-like 6/8-rhythm, but the musical harmonies and instruments (duduk etc.) are typical Armenian, rearranged here, the music seems to be from the Armenian composer Rubik Zangezurci. This is a marriage in Armenia, where the guests are dancing "Artsvapar". Here are even many Armenian "Artsvapar"-melodies. This is an interpretation of Artsvapar-melodies on piano. There are many other examples, filmed long time before youtube. All those examples for me are counterproofs against the non-existence of "Artsvapar"-dance in Armenian culture.
- As I wrote above once again, it seems not to be a very old Armenian tradition and not very frequent or usual, if I remember correctly, it is a cultural adaption of dances from northern neighbors from 20th or 19th century into the Armenian folklore. But if it's true, the dance may not very often or frequent and not very old in Armenian tradition, it would be a very purist interpretation to say, it is not existing. All the examples above prove, "Artsvapar" is existing in Armenian culture as a dance similar to "Lesginka". No more the article says.--WajWohu (Diskussion) 19:43, 14. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
- Hello, once again there is no source, the Wikipedia page of Armenian dances did not source this dance because it does not exist, it was born from a YouTube channel that invented this legend by making an Armenian translation of the Russian word "Lezginka" there are about fifty books that Armenian dances, from the Caucasus, this dance is non-existent. On YouTube this name has been put on all movie dances that have nothing to do with this name. If you can't find a written source then don't put it. The lezginka does not exist in Armenia and there is no point in changing that. (gagik ginosyan is an Armenian dance historian and artsakh fighter, his point of view is proof unlike YouTube videos released by the same creator) --Caucaseveritable (Diskussion) 15:12, 14. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
Übertrag Ende.--WajWohu (Diskussion) 15:08, 15. Aug. 2024 (CEST)
- @Caucaseveritable: I've copied the discussion here, where everybody can add sources and details. If we cannot find a solution here, I will revert older version in some weeks.--WajWohu (Diskussion) 15:08, 15. Aug. 2024 (CEST)--WajWohu (Diskussion) 15:08, 15. Aug. 2024 (CEST)